Man, I totally have an essay on this, but it's on my math notes instead of on the computer. :| VERY HELPFUL.
Okay, so. I'm not sure where to start with this.
Shaun falls under the categories of both "useful" and "dangerous". Cesare's been incredibly guarded the entire time he's been speaking with him, to the point that even when he tells him the truth (like about how he thinks he could be useful to him), he's also half-lying anyway. I. I need to like map out what the hell is going on with that. I can't find where I kind of did that, but the gist of it was that Cesare would love to speak with Shaun when Shaun's under some sort of truth effect. :)
The "dangerous" comes in more that Shaun knows dangerous people and Cesare is really trying to figure out what the hell is going on. He's not interested in harming him, though. He feels like it would be much more useful to keep tabs on him and see how he can work with the role he's playing.
...I'm paper-ing right now and I really can't keep track of where I was going with this. Um. Reverse me? And if there's anything more specific, I can come back to it and try to explain it. o/;;
So! Shaun is being as vague and guarded as physically possible because... well it's sort of a mutual feeling in regards to the useful/dangerous combo. Shaun's pretty much discounted the idea that Cesare's from his world, but he has no idea if his world has Templars, or what Cesare might do IF Templars arrive. He knows that different versions of the same person have been here, and he's afraid that Cesare would listen to the Templar Cesare more then him. Then if he's spilled any major details to Cesare, the entire Assassin order is boned. If it came down to where he was semi-comfortable with Cesare he'd be willing to talk about the animus and genetic memory... but that's "willing", not "would go ahead and do it". It's a big secret for a reason, and not just Lucy, but the brotherhood wouldn't think kindly about him revealing it unless there was a damn good reason.
So Cesare is useful in the case that he can possibly keep him neutral if the Templar/Assassin war spills over into camp. And if he can get him genuinely on his side, then it's worth all the trouble.
On the other hand, Cesare is downright dangerous, and not just for the reasons above. Cesare's known for being a Magnificent Bastard, and not only does Shaun know this, he knows that Cesare knows this (who knows that Shaun knows that Cesare knows- oh you get the idea). So he's being cautious and edging around him because he's playing with some fire here. He's... honestly not sure if he's already been pulled into a trap, but the thought is there and it sets him on edge. ...On the other hand it's Cesare and thus History and... well. Shaun's done dumb things before.
Tiny!Cesare thinks Shaun is a weird man, but he liked teasing him. He had a lot of fun, for the most part! Shaun let him be a brat. :)
Older Cesare hates this camp effect and wants it to die in a fire.
Mostly he doesn't like how he has no control over what he says at that age. Apart from his younger self clearly being out of the loop about whatever his current plans are, he has much less of a barrier when it comes to saying things. It's really frustrating and, quite frankly, a little dangerous. He remembers pretty much all of what happened when he was younger and he's very uncomfortable with the fact that he talked so long to Shaun. Even though he knows what was said, there's a difference between remembering something and actually being able to go over it as it happens. He's glad they stuck to the topics they did. All in all it wasn't good but it could have been worse.
HahaSOB. Cesare was difficult for him, because he would just start to be fond of the tiny... and THEN Cesare would act like a brat. If he'd been a brat all the time Shaun would've tried to verbally smack him upside the head and get him to behave, but it never got that far.
There's also the matter of how he more or less used the tiny's openness to confirm his belief that there aren't any Templars in his world... or that Cesare didn't know about them. While it wasn't his intention from the start at all, it was still a dick move, and he expects Cesare will NOT be happy at all.
Tiny!Cesare loev Turnbull. ♥ He gives him food and a place to stay and he's just so much fun to poke. He's like a big cuddly bear! AND he is trained to protect the Queen! This is very impressive. Tiny!Cesare will stay at the consulate every time. It's like a fun little vacation. :) Turnbull doesn't even make him study and is willing to play games with him.
He is a little confused about the unmarried thing but not too much. Mostly he doesn't understand why Turnbull is a man with a manly job and does lady-work. :|a He thinks he needs a wife so he can get back to things like being a guard instead of feeding everyone. (Also: moose will be exciting and yay~)
Tiny!Cesare likes Pell, too. :) He called him smart and he made small talk with him about Rome.
Turnbull loev tiny!Cesare back. It's kind of hilarious how bad he is with kids in canon... he loves them!!! But they sense his dumbassness and take advantage of him and convince him to play games where they can tie him up and then they can run around like maniacs. Cesare is so well mannered! Adore!!!
Pell thinks the baby is really cute, and approached him for that reason, but he was going to seek Cesare out anyway because Rue was so gushy about him. They will thread, it will happen. \o\
Non-tiny!Cesare likes Turnbull, too, for similar reasons. Cesare has this thing where he categorizes people by how useful they are to him and in Camp, Turnbull's up at the top of this list. As I mentioned before, he appreciates being given a place to stay and etc. The Consulate is definitely more his style than anything else easily available at Camp and as such he is most grateful. He also appreciates how easily readable Turnbull is. He knows he's not a threat and he knows that if he were to ever become one he would be able to see it right away. Also, he doesn't know how all the crossing timelines and etc play out and he would love to have semi-state connections to Canada once he leaves Camp if only to add to his theoretical resume. And he knows that 1) Camp seems to enjoy turning him into a seven-year-old and 2) Turnbull has automatically picked up the task of making sure nothing too bad happens to him in that form--just because he thinks that's the right thing to do. TURNBULL IS VERY CONVENIENT. On a somewhat nicer note, Cesare also thinks Turnbull is a nice and trustworthy person. ...That's part of what makes him useful, actually, so maybe that's not really "nicer"... Anyway, as I said last night, Turnbull's quite safe. Cesare has no desire to harm him in any way and would be quick to mafia for him if need be.
Reverse me again? :D
ed OH RIGHT.
Cesare is actually very interested in meeting Pell. His only real information on him as of now is what he's seen from Rue, so it's, uh, interesting. He's a little biased but he'll act like he's not. I suspect they'll hit it off once they start talking. Cesare is really interested in Pell's world and its government, which Rue has been unwilling to talk about. They should definitely thread sometime! Cesare's been keeping an eye out for him.
A-and I'm curious. What has Pell heard about Cesare?
(I keep meaning to hit Laguna up with adult Cesare again, too. He likes soldier-type people.)
Tiny!Cesare thought Laguna was kind of weird. Actually, he thought he was kind of dumb. But nice! And impressively big and strong! He liked that Laguna actually was willing to show him his weapons and if he runs into him at some other point he'll ask him to teach him to use them (the answer should probably be no, just sayin') because he suspects that Laguna can be worn down by persistent cuteness.
....wow I fail at keeping up with things lately UH.
Laguna thinks tiny!Cesare's a good kid! Obviously he's pretty smart, and he's pretty well-mannered, which is nice, and he seemed impressed at things like Laguna having been a soldier, which is even better. :D So basically overall positive impression, which probably isn't too surprising given Laguna being predisposed toward liking kids. XD
....and he totally can be worn down by persistent cuteness. Err. >_>;;
Tiny!Cesare thinks Natsumi is interesting and funny. He enjoyed teasing talking to her. :) He's a little confused by her Life Choices, especially her lack of concern about getting married. She said that most women get married by 25! She's already 20 and hasn't made any plans! He may be only seven but he knows that the betrothal process and the getting together of a dowery and all of that takes a while. Shouldn't she be putting more effort into it? :|a
He mostly does not think she is a hooker.
Cesare will be highly embarrassed when he turns back and remembers all of this but he will act as thought he is not. This whole turning back and forth thing really bothers him because of the lack of control he has over it and etc, so Natsumi can expect an apology for his actions and then for him to just drop it forever. :|||
I don't think anything's changed about how regular Cesare thinks about Spain. So just for the deaged one:
Tiny!Cesare thinks Spain is weird and interesting. :oa He's not quite sure what to make of him but he likes him! He's... ...actually, he's not really filled in about a lot of the weirdness of Camp, so Spain saying that he's a country is confusing but also very cool. HE WANTS IT TO BE TRUE. HE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO TELL PEOPLE THAT HE MET SPAIN. He kind of wants to take Spain home to show Papá. ♥
I, uh. I think everything I said lasttime still applies to Cesare's thoughts on Rue. (Especially the parts about wanting to understand him and wanting to be in control.) But over the last week or so when I've been bored in class I've been going over his thoughts on people in Camp and I've got more stuff to add. o/;;
okay can I just say first that I love your Rue and have been stalking him everywhere
Whatever it is about Rue that pings regular Cesare also applies to tiny!Cesare. He is highly intrigued by him and likes how friendly he is. Tiny child needs more friends IC'ly and he loves making them in Camp. Rue gets bonus points here for actually knowing Latin, if only in verse. He's studying it, too! :D It's very helpful for his showing off. And he really does see similarities in their situations--I honestly had "then we're the same" written in the tag immediately before Rue said it, but deleted it at the last moment. I was so kicking myself over that. :|
With regular Cesare... I think I need an "it's complicated" button to click here. It's mostly just that Rue crosses various categories so multiple things need to be explained in order for it to really make sense. And then also Cesare has Issues about Trust that affect how he relates to people, even those few people in canon that, yeah, he does trust with his life. What was pointed out recently was that it's less a matter of "does he like you" and more of "are you useful to him", at least on some (most) of the levels he functions on and at least some (most) of the time. Just kind of to explain, I guess, I've been simplifying it by saying that Miguel is Cesare's best friend and body guard, and that's true but it's also equally true that Miguel is his servant and that Cesare blatantly uses him and has him act as a friend because it entertains him and is convenient. He's not really a nice person but he certainly can be. And out of everyone in Camp, Rue comes the closest to filling Miguel's role. He doesn't expect to be able to count on Rue to defend him from attempts on his life, but he has figured out that he can bounce ideas off of him and just enjoys his company. If nothing else he knows that Rue is not someone he needs to categorize as a threat. He figured out a while ago that Rue is not getting close to him in order to harm him and that he is deliberate enough with his actions that he would not turn him over to a more dangerous person accidentally.
Cesare would like to be able to use Rue to gather more information on people in Camp, since it is clear that Rue knows many people that he does not, and especially now that he has had it confirmed what sorts of people Rue is attracted to and repulsed by. Cesare would also like to see more of Rue's world since this is a pretty unique opportunity. Cesare also respects Rue, at least for the most part. His, uh, idea of "respect" has multiple different levels just like his idea of "trust". But as with trust, Rue is on a different level than most people. I didn't realize how much Rue actually fit into this category until after the second soul-kiss where Cesare saw Wolf and Pell. Rue is someone Cesare would mafia for and not just because he's useful or, in this case, in the weaker position. I mean, those things are part of it, but...
...I think at the base of it is that Cesare sees things in Rue that remind him of himself, but in unusual and unexpected ways. Of course he anticipated being able to relate to any number of the crazy megalomaniacs in Camp. I don't think that surprised anyone. But he has a more humanistic bent as well (...although that definition would be an anachronism) and he can sense that in Rue and is drawn to it. I'll probably think of a better way to explain this later. :\
I tried to edit, but LJ told me it was too long. :||||
I forget if I mentioned somewhere else that a big part of the draw I was getting at in that last paragraph is that Rue understands what it means to be an outsider, even when you are supposedly part of a privileged group. This is something that alternatively frustrates and angers Cesare in canon, all the more so because so few people see it. Their experiences are different, of course, but the general conclusion seems to be refreshingly similar.
Rue's feelings for Cesare are very simple and very complicated at the same time.
The simple is that he loves Cesare. That part is simple because he loves just about everyone he comes into contact with, but Cesare is bright and intelligent and there's a feeling of power to him that attracts Rue. There's also an innocence and curiosity in him that he delights in. He really appreciates that Cesare doesn't recoil from his physical nature. It really makes him happy when he doesn't have to avoid touching people. It's very much his natural instinct to to reassure himself, to comfort, to ... just know the other person is there.
Then there's the complicated. Take every thing above, and multiply it by ten. He is incredibly attracted to Cesare, but he's uncertain about it. He keeps hitting Rue's submission button hard, and Rue's really not sure how to handle it sometimes. He's shown Cesare a lot of his most treasured and painful memories. It makes him a little uncertain... a little vulnerable. He usually keeps a pretty flirtatious, teasing attitude with most of his companions in camp, but... Cesare maneuvered around that reaction rather early on. Only a couple of people have ever really reached this level of uncertainty with Rue. He's trying really hard not to think about it because he's a little scared to be hurt.
...
Also... lil!Cesare = teehee babies |DDDD♥! It's kind of funny because he doesn't actually know the meaning of the songs he sang for lil!Cesare. He just learned them.
1) I can't remember where it happened exactly in their conversations, but it started during the first sharing of breath. Ah my brain is so bad, I just remember Cesare pulling away and Rue being completely unguarded and startled and vulnerable. That kind of set the tone.
2) Not a thing in the world. Rue doesn't really care about human history.
It's the simplest thing in the world. To push Rue into the submissive, you just have to be actively dominant. He's very much a soume har most of the time, but he have a very... forceful personality. He's not dominant though. He just... gets around that by being very enthusiastic. When someone does take a dominant attitude with him, he will submit. There is no fighting it at all.
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eta... No, no I'm not going to change that icon.
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Okay, so. I'm not sure where to start with this.
Shaun falls under the categories of both "useful" and "dangerous". Cesare's been incredibly guarded the entire time he's been speaking with him, to the point that even when he tells him the truth (like about how he thinks he could be useful to him), he's also half-lying anyway. I. I need to like map out what the hell is going on with that. I can't find where I kind of did that, but the gist of it was that Cesare would love to speak with Shaun when Shaun's under some sort of truth effect. :)
The "dangerous" comes in more that Shaun knows dangerous people and Cesare is really trying to figure out what the hell is going on. He's not interested in harming him, though. He feels like it would be much more useful to keep tabs on him and see how he can work with the role he's playing.
...I'm paper-ing right now and I really can't keep track of where I was going with this. Um. Reverse me? And if there's anything more specific, I can come back to it and try to explain it. o/;;
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So Cesare is useful in the case that he can possibly keep him neutral if the Templar/Assassin war spills over into camp. And if he can get him genuinely on his side, then it's worth all the trouble.
On the other hand, Cesare is downright dangerous, and not just for the reasons above. Cesare's known for being a Magnificent Bastard, and not only does Shaun know this, he knows that Cesare knows this (who knows that Shaun knows that Cesare knows- oh you get the idea). So he's being cautious and edging around him because he's playing with some fire here. He's... honestly not sure if he's already been pulled into a trap, but the thought is there and it sets him on edge. ...On the other hand it's Cesare and thus History and... well. Shaun's done dumb things before.
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Older Cesare hates this camp effect and wants it to die in a fire.
Mostly he doesn't like how he has no control over what he says at that age. Apart from his younger self clearly being out of the loop about whatever his current plans are, he has much less of a barrier when it comes to saying things. It's really frustrating and, quite frankly, a little dangerous. He remembers pretty much all of what happened when he was younger and he's very uncomfortable with the fact that he talked so long to Shaun. Even though he knows what was said, there's a difference between remembering something and actually being able to go over it as it happens. He's glad they stuck to the topics they did. All in all it wasn't good but it could have been worse.
Oh yeah! What did Shaun think of the baby?
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There's also the matter of how he more or less used the tiny's openness to confirm his belief that there aren't any Templars in his world... or that Cesare didn't know about them. While it wasn't his intention from the start at all, it was still a dick move, and he expects Cesare will NOT be happy at all.
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idk what i want. relationship for turnbull?
but cesare needs to meet pell when he ages back, too.
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Tiny!Cesare loev Turnbull. ♥ He gives him food and a place to stay and he's just so much fun to poke. He's like a big cuddly bear! AND he is trained to protect the Queen! This is very impressive. Tiny!Cesare will stay at the consulate every time. It's like a fun little vacation. :) Turnbull doesn't even make him study and is willing to play games with him.
He is a little confused about the unmarried thing but not too much. Mostly he doesn't understand why Turnbull is a man with a manly job and does lady-work. :|a He thinks he needs a wife so he can get back to things like being a guard instead of feeding everyone. (Also: moose will be exciting and yay~)
Tiny!Cesare likes Pell, too. :) He called him smart and he made small talk with him about Rome.
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Pell thinks the baby is really cute, and approached him for that reason, but he was going to seek Cesare out anyway because Rue was so gushy about him. They will thread, it will happen. \o\
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Reverse me again? :D
ed OH RIGHT.
Cesare is actually very interested in meeting Pell. His only real information on him as of now is what he's seen from Rue, so it's, uh, interesting. He's a little biased but he'll act like he's not. I suspect they'll hit it off once they start talking. Cesare is really interested in Pell's world and its government, which Rue has been unwilling to talk about. They should definitely thread sometime! Cesare's been keeping an eye out for him.
A-and I'm curious. What has Pell heard about Cesare?
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Tiny!Cesare thought Laguna was kind of weird. Actually, he thought he was kind of dumb. But nice! And impressively big and strong! He liked that Laguna actually was willing to show him his weapons and if he runs into him at some other point he'll ask him to teach him to use them (the answer should probably be no, just sayin') because he suspects that Laguna can be worn down by persistent cuteness.
Reverse me?
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Laguna thinks tiny!Cesare's a good kid! Obviously he's pretty smart, and he's pretty well-mannered, which is nice, and he seemed impressed at things like Laguna having been a soldier, which is even better. :D So basically overall positive impression, which probably isn't too surprising given Laguna being predisposed toward liking kids. XD
....and he totally can be worn down by persistent cuteness. Err. >_>;;
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teasingtalking to her. :) He's a little confused by her Life Choices, especially her lack of concern about getting married. She said that most women get married by 25! She's already 20 and hasn't made any plans! He may be only seven but he knows that the betrothal process and the getting together of a dowery and all of that takes a while. Shouldn't she be putting more effort into it? :|aHe mostly does not think she is a hooker.
Cesare will be highly embarrassed when he turns back and remembers all of this but he will act as thought he is not. This whole turning back and forth thing really bothers him because of the lack of control he has over it and etc, so Natsumi can expect an apology for his actions and then for him to just drop it forever. :|||
Reverse me?
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Tiny!Cesare thinks Spain is weird and interesting. :oa He's not quite sure what to make of him but he likes him! He's... ...actually, he's not really filled in about a lot of the weirdness of Camp, so Spain saying that he's a country is confusing but also very cool. HE WANTS IT TO BE TRUE. HE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO TELL PEOPLE THAT HE MET SPAIN. He kind of wants to take Spain home to show Papá. ♥
Reverse me?
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BUT TINY CESARE IS TINY AND THAT MEANS ♥!!!!11
... man I feel like such a pedo
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I, uh. I think everything I said last time still applies to Cesare's thoughts on Rue. (Especially the parts about wanting to understand him and wanting to be in control.) But over the last week or so when I've been bored in class I've been going over his thoughts on people in Camp and I've got more stuff to add. o/;;
okay can I just say first that I love your Rue and have been stalking him everywhere
Whatever it is about Rue that pings regular Cesare also applies to tiny!Cesare. He is highly intrigued by him and likes how friendly he is. Tiny child needs more friends IC'ly and he loves making them in Camp. Rue gets bonus points here for actually knowing Latin, if only in verse. He's studying it, too! :D It's very helpful for his showing off. And he really does see similarities in their situations--I honestly had "then we're the same" written in the tag immediately before Rue said it, but deleted it at the last moment. I was so kicking myself over that. :|
With regular Cesare... I think I need an "it's complicated" button to click here. It's mostly just that Rue crosses various categories so multiple things need to be explained in order for it to really make sense. And then also Cesare has Issues about Trust that affect how he relates to people, even those few people in canon that, yeah, he does trust with his life. What was pointed out recently was that it's less a matter of "does he like you" and more of "are you useful to him", at least on some (most) of the levels he functions on and at least some (most) of the time. Just kind of to explain, I guess, I've been simplifying it by saying that Miguel is Cesare's best friend and body guard, and that's true but it's also equally true that Miguel is his servant and that Cesare blatantly uses him and has him act as a friend because it entertains him and is convenient. He's not really a nice person but he certainly can be. And out of everyone in Camp, Rue comes the closest to filling Miguel's role. He doesn't expect to be able to count on Rue to defend him from attempts on his life, but he has figured out that he can bounce ideas off of him and just enjoys his company. If nothing else he knows that Rue is not someone he needs to categorize as a threat. He figured out a while ago that Rue is not getting close to him in order to harm him and that he is deliberate enough with his actions that he would not turn him over to a more dangerous person accidentally.
Cesare would like to be able to use Rue to gather more information on people in Camp, since it is clear that Rue knows many people that he does not, and especially now that he has had it confirmed what sorts of people Rue is attracted to and repulsed by. Cesare would also like to see more of Rue's world since this is a pretty unique opportunity. Cesare also respects Rue, at least for the most part. His, uh, idea of "respect" has multiple different levels just like his idea of "trust". But as with trust, Rue is on a different level than most people. I didn't realize how much Rue actually fit into this category until after the second soul-kiss where Cesare saw Wolf and Pell. Rue is someone Cesare would mafia for and not just because he's useful or, in this case, in the weaker position. I mean, those things are part of it, but...
...I think at the base of it is that Cesare sees things in Rue that remind him of himself, but in unusual and unexpected ways. Of course he anticipated being able to relate to any number of the crazy megalomaniacs in Camp. I don't think that surprised anyone. But he has a more humanistic bent as well (...although that definition would be an anachronism) and he can sense that in Rue and is drawn to it. I'll probably think of a better way to explain this later. :\
Reverse me? /o/;
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I forget if I mentioned somewhere else that a big part of the draw I was getting at in that last paragraph is that Rue understands what it means to be an outsider, even when you are supposedly part of a privileged group. This is something that alternatively frustrates and angers Cesare in canon, all the more so because so few people see it. Their experiences are different, of course, but the general conclusion seems to be refreshingly similar.
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The simple is that he loves Cesare. That part is simple because he loves just about everyone he comes into contact with, but Cesare is bright and intelligent and there's a feeling of power to him that attracts Rue. There's also an innocence and curiosity in him that he delights in. He really appreciates that Cesare doesn't recoil from his physical nature. It really makes him happy when he doesn't have to avoid touching people. It's very much his natural instinct to to reassure himself, to comfort, to ... just know the other person is there.
Then there's the complicated. Take every thing above, and multiply it by ten. He is incredibly attracted to Cesare, but he's uncertain about it. He keeps hitting Rue's submission button hard, and Rue's really not sure how to handle it sometimes. He's shown Cesare a lot of his most treasured and painful memories. It makes him a little uncertain... a little vulnerable. He usually keeps a pretty flirtatious, teasing attitude with most of his companions in camp, but... Cesare maneuvered around that reaction rather early on. Only a couple of people have ever really reached this level of uncertainty with Rue. He's trying really hard not to think about it because he's a little scared to be hurt.
...
Also... lil!Cesare = teehee babies |DDDD♥! It's kind of funny because he doesn't actually know the meaning of the songs he sang for lil!Cesare. He just learned them.
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1) When/how did Cesare move past that first level of flirting?
2) Does Rue know anything about historical Cesare like a bunch of other people in Camp?
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2) Not a thing in the world. Rue doesn't really care about human history.
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What does he do to hit the submission button?
A-also I'm sorry for his being a dick. :<
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